Board logo

标题: [技术分析] 一个美国专业消防队员讲天津大爆炸在美国会如何处理! [打印本页]

作者: 钢铁牛    时间: 2015-8-15 13:44     标题: 一个美国专业消防队员讲天津大爆炸在美国会如何处理!

本帖最后由 钢铁牛 于 2015-8-15 19:12 编辑

I am not familiar with the term "burn down principal" but the concept is not unheard of. I'll try and unpack this as neatly as I can from the perspective of the American fire service, West Coast. I am not a Haz-Mat guy beyond First Responder Operations and Decon training so this is not the ultimate answer but we can call it a start.

This incident should have, if not immediately then very quickly, been recognized and dispatched as a Hazardous Material with fire call.
That recognition would then steer the dispatching agency to notify the Haz-Mat response units within the city's jurisdiction.
Upon receiving the call data the Haz-Mat units should have been able to identify, at least to a minimal degree what chemicals were stored on scene and hopefully a rough estimate of quantities.
In the U.S. we use the Emergency Response Guide (http://phmsa.dot.gov/pv_obj_cach...) to assist us in recognizing what a chemical is based on placard ink or containment vessel. Once the substance is known then we can formulate a plan.
Depending on the substance the plan may be to aggressively attack, on one end of the spectrum, or isolate and deny entry on the other end. Some chemicals when exposed to fire require massive evacuation areas.
Civilians within the affected areas may be instructed to either evacuate, or shelter in place and await further instruction.

With an incident the size and scope of what was seen in China, it seems safe to say that any emergency response organization would be overwhelmed, at least in the early hours of an explosion of this magnitude. Based on what I saw in videos online, the blast wave and burning material that was thrown outward would have likely caused additional secondary incidents such as structure collapse and fires. Having limited knowledge of the particulars of this specific incident I can only speculate.

To address the meat of the question: yes, it is conceivable that the fire authority could have declared the firefight too unsafe to engage directly. It is also safe to say that at least several, safety systems failed to do their intended jobs so perhaps the possibility of an explosion seemed unlikely to first arriving crews. Whether it was an automatic extinguishing system or ignored safety practices that initiated this incident, does not really matter to the deceased right now. There will certainly be a comprehensive investigation and more will be learned in the weeks and months to follow.

I do know of one time in my response area a fire was allowed to burn was when a fuel truck wrecked and caught fire. The reason for allowing the fuel burn was to protect a nearby waterway from the fuel spill. By allowing the fuel to burn the road was partially destroyed but the waterway was protected, which in the grand scheme of things was a win.

In reference the an incident this size taking place in California, at a minimum our state office of emergency services would be activated and likely there would be a federal response as well.
作者: 钢铁牛    时间: 2015-8-15 14:09

其中几个关键点

1)识别起火的性质,首先搞清楚危险化学物资,再制定救火方案,是进攻还是防守还是撤退
2)疏散平民
3)紧急处理爆炸后的二次伤害
4)烧毁原理,是灵活运用,由现场指挥员根据实际情况做决定

救火的确是个技术活,引导方向很重要,一旦方向错了,代价是非常惨痛的
作者: 雨后    时间: 2015-8-15 14:46

希望这里所说的只是谣言:
zt:天津大爆炸发生至今日凌晨造成104人死亡,722人受伤。爆炸区昨仍有多次爆炸,肇事的瑞海国际物流公司储存700吨含有剧毒的化学物氰化钠(俗称山埃),包装被炸开,当局担心化学物扩散,昨上午勒令核心区域方圆三公里范围所有人紧急疏散,封锁来往道路,两万名居民大逃亡!

「东海路两公里范围内都不能停车和留人!」爆炸核心区域附近昨上午有交警队长拿着喇叭,称接上级命令,要求距离事发核心区方圆三公里内所有人撤离,有指约700吨氰化钠大概位置位于核心区域东侧一公里,现场指挥部下令:「有紧急情况,迅速撤离!」位于前方的第九大街指挥部陆续撤退,附近多辆参与救援的车辆撤走,另有拖车在第八大街的街道拖走车辆,指接到命令要把救援通道全部让出来。通往核心区域的东海路遭武警封死,气氛十分紧张,很多人开车逃离。央视记者指现场空气中有疑似氰化物挥发的杏仁味。

距爆炸现场三公里范围内,分布逾11处住宅及屋苑,居住人口约两万人。爆炸发生后,不少流离失所的灾民,获安排暂住天津开发区第二小学,前日还在写白板寻找失散亲友,昨日已被下令撤离。志愿人员用大声公呐喊,指收到上级命令,要求民众穿长衫、长裤,及戴口罩坐大巴离开,此后不停有大巴进出载群众离开,帐篷空无一人。当局担心风向即将改变,有毒物质可能扩散,因此下令撤离,连环保、交警与指挥部人员也全部撤出。
作者: turnip_1987    时间: 2015-8-15 23:47

我只能说,中国应该学学外国怎么储藏危险化学物上的方法, 在美国,这种物品是储藏在地下,周围无人区。
作者: nmaverick    时间: 2015-8-16 07:09

据说,该公司也没有向有关部门报告他们的危险品的种类和数量。我怀疑对消防员的救火产生了误导。
作者: 钢铁牛    时间: 2015-8-16 12:18

随着一些细节逐渐揭开很多隐含问题也暴露出来
这次救援的消防队居然多数是合同工,这把这个非常专业的职业变得更加问题重重

在遇到比较复杂的火情时由于经验不足,出事的概率也更大。这次天津港出大事,再次显现出中国很多恶性灾难和救灾,大多本身是自己的系统问题

上次长江沉船没有专业救援人员,结果请的海军潜水员,这次天津港救火大爆炸,主要的也不是专业消防员,而是合同工
作者: 寻梦    时间: 2015-8-16 12:38

大型危险化学品企业要求有自己的消防机构和专职消防员,估计他们就是,专职消防员说白了,就是企业员工,安全知识要靠企业来培训。
悄悄告诉你们一个消息,百度变黑了
作者: 钢铁牛    时间: 2015-8-16 18:28

给你做个比喻就清楚了!

危险化学品救火就如同打一场现代战争最难最复杂的主要攻坚战,必须是正规军里的精锐部队的特种兵来负责。

这次天津港打主力的那些合同工消防队就如同民兵来打一次现代化的攻坚战!专业技术水平经验,这个等级差了多少级一比就知道
作者: aimei    时间: 2015-8-17 08:58

牛哥看得深远
这些事件让人很郁闷
难受




欢迎光临 华人论坛 (http://169.62.244.154/forum/) Powered by Discuz! 7.2